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First, let’s go back to the future. Magnet magazine just ran a long article on the seemingly dubious label Homestead, which released four Death of Samantha albums. Did you get a chance to see the article, and if so, how best can you describe the band’s fairly long-lasting relationship with the label, which housed many of the 1980’s great indie bands?

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Yeah, I read that article, and actually really liked what John (Petkovic from DOS) said in there. I think he nailed the idea that if these people are really thinking they were ripped of by the label, they don’t get out much. Every label, in a sense is a rip off, but honestly, how much money was ever made by any of those bands?!

The first album and the following EP were prior to me joining the band, but I was friends with them. At the time, Gerard was really into the band’s first single, and ended up signing them. I joined the band for the next two albums. My band at the time, The Reactions (also on Homestead), had broken up around the same time that DOS’ bass player quit, so John asked me if I would be into joining the band…on bass! I figured, I dug the band and it would be fun. Which it was. So, I became a bass player. Homestead , at the time, was probably as good as any indie label, save for maybe SST, who seemed, at least, to be more organized. Homestead had a high presence on the college rock scene, radio and fanzines, and was a respected label, especially on the East Coast. As for housing other “great 80’s indie bands,” I would have to disagree. I mean aside from Nick Cave, I can’t think of any bands on that label I actually liked. Sonic Youth? Big Black? Total crap! I always thought most of those bands weren’t “real bands” if that makes sense. It all seemed like some college prank or something. Sonic Youth always struck me as so contrived, especially when they decided they wanted to “rock out” — adopting a pseudo Manson Family chic, associating themselves with Madonna and all that nonsense. The truth is, they were jealous of Redd Kross. They tried really hard to be a cool rock band, but at heart they were still geeky art fops. You see, “Rock” on an indie label is one thing, “indie rock” is something else entirely. With DOS it was a weird time. I mean, we weren’t by any means a big band, but people knew of us, we got lots of press and were able to tour the US a few times. If we had been from somewhere besides Cleveland we may have had a better chance at something. It is interesting to note that at our peak were we doing shows where our opening acts included Smashing Pumpkins, Gin Blossoms, and Nirvana, among others.

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I remember sitting in a van in Boston with Nirvana, this must have been right after they signed with Sub Pop, and one of them saying how they weren’t like all those other Sub Pop bands that they were a lot poppier. So, they start playing, and I’m standing there thinking, wow, my definition of poppy and yours differ greatly flannel man. Honestly, I thought they sucked and their later years did little to change that. Possibly the most over-rated, yet undeniably influential bands of the last many years. It was funny, because we did some big show in Seattle a year or so before it all exploded there. We were staying at some bands’ house and this guy actually asked “So what’s the drug scene like in Cleveland?” Now, for someone who has never been into drugs, this was the oddest question I could imagine. I said, “What do you mean drug scene?” He replied that smack was really coming into it there. I just rolled my eyes and walked away. Those kids with their drugs and their flannel shirts. Gold lame cost the same at thrift stores as flannel, so there was no excuse for that kind of fashion faux pas! That whole Sub Pop era I just didn’t get at all. Then again, it wasn’t meant for me, so there ya go.

Your new record has two covers, one by LA’s long running Leaving Trains, who I saw open for Black Flag, and “Sonic Reducer” by the ever-beloved Dead Boys/Rocket from the Tomb, from your own hometown. Did you see the Rocket from the Tomb reunion tour or hear the last record? (if so, what were your impressions), and can you describe what led you to really reinvent “Sonic…” which is a keynote track that nearly every reviewer mentions? Also, it’s probably apropos to mention that Death of Samantha paid tribute to Peter Laughner from Ubu by covering his song “Sylvia Plath.”
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Well, first off, I’ve known Falling James since the mid-1980s when Death Of Samantha did some touring with the Trains. He’s got a real spark and love for rock & roll. The Leaving Trains, James in particular, are one of rock & roll’s lost treasures. As for the RFTT, I saw them play when they first reappeared and they were fantastic! Really solid and rocking, I saw them a couple months ago and they lacked focus and energy, except for Cheetah who always kills. It was just kind of going through the motions. The new songs were alright, but when compared to stuff like “30 Seconds Over Tokyo” or “Final Solution” I mean…there is no comparison! As for our version of “Sonic Reducer,” we were asked to play this Stiv Bators memorial show a couple years ago. The remaining Dead Boys were headlining it and the idea was for the other bands on the bill to do Stiv, Lords, or Dead Boys songs as a tribute thing. His parents were even there! So, we did three songs from “Disconnected” (his great solo LP) and I had come up with the idea of doing a really slow version of “Sonic Reducer.” It seems like it’s the “punk” national or something. For a while, it was like every other band coming through town did a version of that song and it was always a generic run through of the original. So I thought, hey we’ll do this slow take on it and piss off the punks, well…that backfired cause after we played it, the crowd went nuts. They loved it! Jimmy and Cheetah both said it was the coolest version they had ever heard of the song. So, we ended up recording it due to the response it got live. A few months ago we did a show and at the end of out set, I’m unplugging my pedals and I look up and there’s Cheetah standing right in front of the stage smiling and said, “What, no Sonic Reducer tonight?!”, cause we hadn’t played it that time. He just happened to be in town for a Rocket rehearsal and ended up at our show. Another time we did it and Jimmy Zero got up and played with us. I have always loved the Dead Boys. I think Stiv was one of the greatest front men of all time and to me, they were the best “punk” band of the era.
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As for the DOS Laughner cover, our drummer Steve-O (no relation to the Jackass star) said Peter Laughner came to him in a dream and kept muttering the name Sylvia Plath over and over. We saw it as a sign to record it. Shortly after that Steve-O was beaten up by Byron Coley for having linear dreams nd a hyphen in his name.
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Could you tell us about the shift from playing bass in Death… to playing drums in Cobra Verde? Was it simply a matter of boredom and change of pace, or did you think you could bring something to the kit, via bass technique and keen ear, or was it just yet another instrument to pick up and try, given your musical proclivities?
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Well, I am originally a drummer. Been playing drums since I was 5 years old thanks to Mickey Dolenz. I played drums in The Reactions, and along the way taught myself guitar. That was enough, at the time, to step into the bass slot with DOS. Drums are still my favorite thing to play with guitar a close second. DOS was the only band I ever played bass in, and to be honest wouldn’t want to be a bass player again. I mean, I wasn’t really a bass player, I was a guitar player playing bass. Those who are real bass players are few and far between and you can tell when you hear them.

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For two years, you drummed and even helped produce (if I am right) for Guided By Voices, out of a total line-up that amounts to something like 22 players. Many fans and no less than the Chicago Tribune noted that the Cobra Verde-backed Robert Pollard was a whole different beast:

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Not that the old band didn’t rock. They executed addictive pop songs such as “Game of Pricks” and “Motor Away” quite well, but they never really explored the tunes’ full potential. The new GBV, with guitarists Doug Gillard and John Petkovic slashing through every song with heedless conviction, weren’t afraid to take interesting chances with riffs, and they didn’t shy from making Pollard’s sterling creations the arena-rock anthems they were always meant to be. 
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With Petkovic stalking the stage like a caged animal, Gillard embroidering the songs with urgent, plaintive guitar lines and Pollard swinging the microphone cord like an energetic Roger Daltrey, songs like “Little Lies” and “Jane of the Waking Universe” transformed the Metro into the world’s smallest stadium. But it wasn’t just the guitars that made GBV’s set an arena-rock show: The elastic bass of Don Depew recalled The Who classics such as “I Can See For Miles,” and drummer Dave Swanson pummeled his kit with precise, ferocious abandon.

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Was that a satisfying and collaborative time for you, or did you feel like a hired hand, like people playing in a backing band for Bob Mould or Elvis Costello?
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“Ferocious abandon,” I like that! Well, you know it was an odd fit in some respects and made total sense in others. I understood where Bob was coming from within his songs. We both shared a lot of musical heroes and influences. We bonded over the Who, Sparks and early Genesis for sure. But Cobra Verde, the original incarnation, was a different animal than any of the previous GBV lineups. Personally, I think we made a great album with Mag Earwhig. I also think we did sort of pump new life into the old hits, but in other ways we kind of cluttered up what GBV was. It should have progressed to making GBV a different sort of band, but ultimately, to me, didn’t live up to it’s potential. Oh and please don’t ever try and compare Pollard to Elvis Costello. That’s just wrong.

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If you don’t mind, could also you recall the Cleveland recordings of Nov. 1996 with Pollard and Mitch Mitchell, which Nude as the News.com has described as:
Accomplished musicians and professionals to the core, Cobra Verde seemed just what Bob needed for the new incarnation of GBV…But after the sessions wrapped, Bob secretly felt unsatisfied with the results. Don Depew, who had engineered and mixed the sessions, didn’t seem to understand Bob’s intuitively ragged style…[Bob] ended up scrapping a lot of those songs.

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Did you feel that the songs were “too slick” or that the producer had simply chosen to highlight some of the more mainstream aspects of Pollard’s intuitive side, or something else?

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Well…in some respect I don’t think it was slick enough. Honestly, Bob’s “ragged style” was really born out of making the most out of the least in terms of recording equipment. I mean, the 4 track is limiting and those early GBV records made the most out of that. I really doubt it was a conscious sort of artistic statement, being “lo-fi.” It was what he had at his disposal. I don’t think Bob knew what he really wanted at that moment in time other than he wanted to do something different. Mitch was there and initially going to be a part of the whole thing. Then all of a sudden, he was gone from the picture. I still don’t know why. Mitch was always a super cool guy. Laid back and rocking. I always dug his style in the original GBV and was really looking forward to playing with him, but alas it was not to be. We recorded a bunch of songs…expanded, arranged, and embellished ideas Bob had. I think maybe we all had our own take on what GBV was, is, and could have been at the time. The original batch of songs had a totally different running order and was all “hi-fi” stuff. We put the songs together and I really thought it was cool. To be honest, I think that original album was a much better record. More fluid and consistent. A lot of it leaned towards Bob’s prog influences while maintaining the Who-ish tendencies. All of which I thought was a good move at the time. So, we complete the album, then a couple weeks later Bob sends me this tape with a new running order, some songs are missing and some cheap lo-fi stuff in their place. At the time, I think he was afraid of taking to big a step away from what “GBV” was and was thinking he would alienate the old fans. Ultimately, I think Mag was not the forward move it should have been, but more of a lateral one really. At that point, GBV really was poised for a bigger step and I think that step was squashed from within. When we toured, though, the fans loved it. That album was a lot of people’s first Guided By Voices experience and to this day there are those who think those were some of the band’s best shows.

One last question about the GBV experiences, since the same web site details the biographical note that, “After a late October concert in San Francisco, Bob spoke with Addicted to Noise e-zine about his desire to work with other musicians on the next album, including powerhouse drummer Jim MacPherson of The Breeders and Amps. Thinking the reporter wouldn’t print what he had whispered in “hushed tones,” Bob was shocked when everyone in Cobra Verde (except Doug Gillard) confronted him about the article.” Does this gel with your memory, or do you feel that this conflict has been exaggerated, though it does sound like Chris Mars reading that he bad been kicked out of the band while reading a magazine interview with Paul Westerberg.

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That whole thing was just retarded to be honest. I love the drama there…”hushed tones” “Bob was shocked.” It’s just silly. John did in fact read that thing on the Internet and he called me about it. I was pissed at the moment, not because Bob wanted to do something else, I mean, how many members has that band had?! I had no preconceived notion that this was the final chapter in Bob’s story; what pissed me off was the way it happened. Bob called me a few nights later to smooth things out, which didn’t happen. I didn’t “confront” him about it, I just told him I thought it could have been handled differently. To which he basically told me to fuck off. What John or Don did I have no idea. As for Doug, who knows. We did one final show, with a very drunk singer, in Columbus, and that was it. At one point on the last tour we did, Bob pulled me aside and started babbling about Doug and I “really joining his band.” I said I thought we were in his band. So, I think at that point, he was already plotting some move. To be honest, I think a lot of it came down to he and John, both band leaders by definition, just butting heads and Bob wanted him out. John wanted out anyway, and I know Bob felt he couldn’t communicate with Don. As for me, I probably wouldn’t have lasted a long time regardless. I know the fact that I don’t drink (and never have) bothered him to some extent. One time he was talking to John and asked him “why doesn’t Dave drink…I just don’t get that with him.” He knew I wasn’t ‘one of the guys’ in that respect and he just didn’t understand. Personally, though I liked a lot of their music, I never got the whole GBV frat boy thing at all. That’s not where I come from and it was a foreign thing for me for sure. There was no mysticism with GBV, no romance, sparkle or thunder…just beer (Bob Pollard and I have no hard feelings at this point, in fact on the final GBV show in Cleveland I got up and played drums on a couple songs, and the last time he came through on his solo tour, Rainy Day Saints opened the show).

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It’s interesting to note that people have approached “Diamond Star Highway” with a reference almanac of allusions, ranging from the Plimsouls to Rain Parade, from boogie Mott the Hoople and glamcentric style to paisley overtures, in part, I think, because it seems so remarkably stripped down and honest, like some the best recordings on Frontier, IRS, and others in the 1980s, before the advent of omnipresent Gen X and Y winking irony and omnipresent Mac tools engineering, which is what I think partly fuels a love for things like Little Steven (who has given you kudos!). Did you intend to make an album that looked back and would register with people as an amalgam of styles?

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Umm, no. There were no intentional moves at hand, I mean I love a lot of different styles of music, granted, most of them rock based, but even within that framework, there’s a lot to go through. To me, it’s all about how things fit together. All those things mentioned are near and dear to my musical heart for sure. Mentioning Mott in the same breath as Rainy Day Saints…what’s not to be thrilled about! You know, in my mind The Monkees, The Velvet Underground, Slade, Motorhead, The Turtles, Dave Brubeck, Abba, King Crimson, Howlin Wolf…they all belong side by side. They all fit together somehow. There’s a conscious pop thread throughout all good music. To me that’s what ties it together. One of the downfalls of a lot of current music is the categorizing and specializing of everything. Most bands specialize in their genre and dare not step outside of it. There’s room for everything…well, almost everything I mean there are things that I do dislike and have no use for (death metal, hip hop, Billy Joel to maim a few). Recently, I was looking through an old 16 Magazine and there’s a paragraph on what Herman’s Hermits are up to, followed by a thing about a new Fugs album! I mean, it was just all music! The whole Gen X irony thing has helped drive more nails in the coffin of Rock And Roll. You can’t just like a band now, especially if they are a rock band. There has to be a nod and a wink, as you say, as to why you like them. Take a band like The Darkness, for instance. When that first album came out, a lot of people seemed to like them because they thought it was ironic or a parody. When they realized they were a real band, those so-called fans abandoned them. Personally, I think they are the greatest band of the last 20 + years! People have exchanged having a sense of humor for cheap irony, which of course isn’t a substitute at all. It also provides a trap door to escape from being judged. If it’s all ironic or a joke, then you can’t be held accountable. Plus, there is no one capturing the imagination anymore. If Jim Morrison or Johnny Rotten emerged now, they would be ridiculed and written off in an instance. There’s no room for legend or mythmaking. It’s all so Hollywood Minute or some nonsense. In many ways, I think Marilyn Manson really was the last rock star.

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Even within the “garage” scene, it’s all down to looking the part, whether that means pseudo mod or gas station attendant, having the most generic riffs and filling songs with every cliché you can think of. Which in and of itself is unintentionally ironic. Cookie cutter rebellion if ever there was. Is there a difference between these “garage” bands and a band like Sha Na Na? Same damn thing! The other thing I really loath about “garage” is that whole sort of Crypt Records mentality that preaches 1955-1966, and 1977 as being the only good time for music. OK, so in other words putting limits and boundaries around yourself is really hip then. No thanks punky.

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Tell me about the use of sax (let’s not forget that Death of Samantha used clarinet!) on tracks like “No Surprise” and the rather freeform “Diamond Star Highway” that remind me both of the mid-period Stooges, late MC5, and even X Ray Spex. In the late 1990s, I had a NYC area band with a saxophone player in the studio, and I always felt that saxophone is really underrepresented in rock, and that it brings a certain tension between haywire electric and old school acoustic instruments that offer very different kinds of vibe and approach, but why did you add the sax?

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Can we please forget DOS used clarinet?? Stooges, MC5…that’s A-OK in my book. You’re the first person to mention X-Ray Spex too…they were always one of my favorite bands of that era. I really loved their style and their use of sax. “Oh Bondage Up Yours” is one of the best records ever! As for the sax in general, when used properly, I love it. Andy Mackay of Roxy Music! David Jackson of Van Der Graaf Generator! Flipper! When sax is misused, however, it makes me want to stab people in the forehead. Smooth jazz, Steely Dan and so forth. Robyn Hitchcock hit it on the head in his song “1974” with the line “ghastly mellow saxophones all over the floor.” That man is a genius! There’ll be more sax on the next album as well.

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Among others, you thank Falling James (Leaving Trains, writer), Clem Burke (Blondie), and Wayne Kramer (MC5), which also reads like a list of soul-mates, and I should not neglect Greg Shaw and the Rubinoos too. Do you feel like these artists offer a kind of path of staying true to form and sensibility even as younger generations maintain a post-Grand Theft Auto, attention deficit, and sometimes shallow perspective, or do you find a comfort zone in the small community of rockers who are still the staple of small ma and pa record shops across the world?

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Well, James, Wayne and Clem are all friends and all rockers till the end of time. Clem is, aside from Keith Moon, my favorite drummer ever and one class act. Wayne was godsend to rock and roll. I mean, the MC5 in their prime are probably the one band I would travel back in time to witness. The first time I ever saw the “Kick Out The Jams” LP cover, I must have been like 13 or something, and I had no idea who they were except maybe a mention in Creem, but the way that LP cover looked. It spoke to me! It was like…this is what rock and roll is all about! The flash and glamour of it all, the sparkly shirts, the flags on the amps, the long hair! I bought the thing (.99 cents at a department store if memory serves) based on the way it looked. I wasn’t prepared for the sonic assault! Screw the politics of it and just listen to those guitars! I told Wayne that story and he just smiled. I’ll take the 5 over any of the other oft used icons (Stooges, Dolls etc) to me they were the ultimate! I love the bombast! Bomp magazine was a huge influence on me as a teenager in finding out about not only what was cool that was new, but detail on all these great older bands. With Greg Shaw, well, any guy who puts out The Flamin’ Groovies “You Tore Me Down”…come on! That alone warrants his importance. That’s one thing I really question now. Are any of the kids today trying to find the tree from which all this fell from? I mean, when I would read an article about a band I liked and they mentioned an older band that they had loved, I would want to hear that band. Still do for that matter. These roads all lead somewhere, from one band to another and back…to folk, blues, jazz, they lead everywhere you just have to keep on the path. It’s no wonder kids download everything now though. I think they’re self aware and know that a year from now, they won’t like or care about that band or album anyway, so why buy it. I grew up in a different time and am still buying records by and going to see artists I have followed for many many years and am still loyal to.

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I think ultimately Rock And Roll really is kind of at the end of its cycle. Not to be ringing the death bell too loudly, but honestly, Rock And Roll doesn’t mean that much to people anymore. It’s been used and abused, cheapened and degraded over time. For me it was, and is my life. As cliché as it sounds, it’s what gave me a reason to live, and still does! As the old guard dies off one by one, there’s no one really to replace them. Sure, there’s always great music around, and these days you just have to look harder for it. I just think it’s sad that to those being born today, Rock And Roll will just be a chapter in a history book and not a living, breathing animal. I hope I’m proven wrong! Maybe after lying dormant for years, some brave kid will unearth a microchip that has a video of The Cramps on it and it will blow his ever- loving mind to eternity!